Talk:2010 - (08/27/2010) Job Adjustments Part I
Thoughts on Update Looking at these adjustments, I'm quite interested in them personally. However, I am also looking particularly at a few... Divine Caress - I feel this will be a wonderful asset, especially when combined with Divine Seal / Divine Veil, in order to mitigate the harsh repetition of most enemies constantly using the same TP move over and over. When combined with Erase, especially, this seems like it could really open up the possibilities of essentially causing new Bar effects to effects we cannot touch as of yet. Saboteur - Just a testament to the RDMs enfeebling mastery. I'm sure it'll be quite useful, when used properly. Soul Jump - Even though it shares the recast with High Jump, I feel that this can be useful whenever the DRG is capable of causing higher numbers in damage. Meaning this has the same usefulness as Spirit Jump, as a hate control type jump. Of course, if this jump shares the same hate shedding effect as High Jump, then it not only would help to remove it from the DRG but also keep the DRG from gaining too much from the damage caused from the jump. Enlight & Endark - Finally we receive the final two En-spells. Of course, they are given to the two jobs that would be best suited for them. Yes, many people probably think the RDM should get them. However, RDM is more of the elemental nature, while PLD and DRK are obviously more towards Light and Darkness, respectively. *Excuse me? The two jobs best suited for them? DRK is designed around 2-handed weapons (case in point), which means a long delay between swings. Enspells give the most damage when you swing faster (case in point), not slower. PLD is a tank. Period. Enspells only add enmity when you cast them, not from their damage. So please, explain to me how *either* of these jobs can be considered the best for Enspells? And why can RDM not use either of these? *No one* got Enspells before RDM, and we get our Tier Is from Lv 16-27, a far cry from the Lv 85 that Enlight and Endark are set at. Add to that the fact that RDM got basically nothing out of the last cap update, and lost quite a bit, and we're losing *more* with this one. Only unique ability we've got left that isn't sub-level is Composure, and both us and WHMs got shafted out of Accession+Haste in case you don't remember. —Feauce 16:45, August 31, 2010 (UTC) *This is merely a personal note, that's all. ^^; These were my opinions on the matters, after all (points to initial text). But that aside.. yes, I know that many people feel that RDM should've gotten them by technicality for game play purposes. However, as I said, looking at it from an aspect of a game creator, I'd say that PLD and DRK are most suited for attaining them at a higher level, due to potential potency for these particular En-spells as well as that PLD and DRK are Light and Darkness based jobs anyway, where-as RDM is more suited towards the six basic elementals (as-is BLM, but anyway). And yes, I know RDM isn't getting a lot, but properly geared and skilled RDMs can be quite potent all on their own. There are videos out there of RDMs without relic weapons or uber-equipment solo'ing many harder NMs and even some HNMs and KSNMs - feats that almost no other magic-based job can do. Just a thought, but perhaps SE is saying that RDMs are already quite powerful on their own when the person is skilled enough? --Eli 19:51, August 31, 2010 (UTC) *Weird that someone formatted responses into the person's comment, even moving my previous comment from the bottom to the top, but whatever. RDM can shut it when it comes to "loosing" their job abilities, because they aren't loosing anything, in fact, they are getting more, such as Refresh II. Considering RDM can solo most things where most jobs cannot, I think that it is only fair to say that other jobs can get RDM abilities by subbing it (Convert still requires a RDM sub!), or at higher levels (Paladin deserves Phalanx more then anyone). I don't see many WHM complaining about SCH getting Regen III, or other jobs getting Protect V, or Paladin's getting a new Club skill, but WHM do not have access to it yet, or the fact that SCH or PUP has access to debuff removal, or that WHM can't solo many things that the majority of other jobs can, or that most of the new white magic is going to other jobs, with Cura II and what will probably be gimped versions of the spells RDM get (with shorter duration in all likelihood). And that's just White Mages. I don't see other jobs complaining all that much either, like BLM not complaining that RDM is getting an Elemental Seal for debuffs with half the recast time, or BLU not complaining that RDM is getting a Magic Burst bonus. The simple fact of the matter is that RDM is overpowered in comparison to most jobs, but unlike cases of this before, RDM isn't getting gimped (RNG gimping anyone?) to deal with this complaint. Instead, RDM is getting new abilities that work well with the job, and other jobs are getting abilities that work well with them (particularly BLM, which I have to say is getting a lot of cool new toys). Perhaps RDM will get Endark and Enlight someday, but I don't see the need, given that most mobs do not require these too things, and that traditionally, these mobs are the favored enemies of other jobs anyways (Light mobs are the favored enemy of any DRK or BLM for the most part, and Dark mobs are the favored enemies of PLD and WHM for the most part). On top of that, RDM has no native Divine spells despite its Divine Magic skill. - Yertthedestroyer 21:45, August 31, 2010 (UTC) *@Feauce: Good thing RDM isn't getting Refresh II, huh? Also, he never said Enlight and Endark were -best- for PLD and DRK, just that they were stylistically suited for them. You know, DRK and Dark Magic and PLD and Divine Magic? Also, how can you complain about enmity-free additional damage for DRK and PLD? Do you like killing things as slow as possible? I know on my SCH, everyone likes the additional damage my Accession Enspells bring to them, even the 2-handers. I've never received a single complaint ever about doing more damage. Unless of course, your weapon has a potent Additional Effect like Excalibur or Bravura.--Mooffins 05:35, September 1, 2010 (UTC) *The point being, for En- spells to do adequet damage, you need the Enhancing Magic skill to back it up. PLD has some of this, but as far as I know DRK has none. Endark will likely be Dark Magic for this reason...which defies current logic of spell classification, but that's SE for you. The scion of a lot of RDMs' angst lately is because SE seem to be dismantling our job part by part and giving it to everyone else. This is how SE "re-adjust" the job, because they simply don't know what to do with it. I'm also a WHM who capped Shellra V merits only to discover that Shell V cannot be overwritten by a fully merited Shellra V, as well as a BLM who sees SCH and PUP getting our tier V nukes. So I understand that RDM isn't the only job suffering from this "distribution of abilities". And in response to "Good thing RDM isn't getting Refresh II, huh?" I only have one thing to say - Mage's Ballad III. -- Orubicon 09:55, September 1, 2010 (UTC) **I wasn't aware Ballad III and Refresh II were mutually exclusive. What's your point? And for that matter, how do you know Enlight will be Enhancing skill? It could very well be Divine, thus preserving what you think is logic. Now to the rest of your argument, RDM hasn't lost anything at all except for the ability to tank, which was silly to begin with. Their role as being a job versed in 4 schools of magic plus some melee ability has been preserved and expanded. RDM hasn't "lost" anything; they can still enfeeble, nuke, buff, heal, and melee as they always have. I also think it's silly to claim that BLM has any ownership over single target nukes. Do you have a problem with RDM having access to them as well? BLM's forte has been in their ability to cast AOEs as well as single targets, and they haven't lost the ability to cast either of those spells. I still don't understand the point you're trying to make. Are you saying it's a bad thing to expand the repertoire of other jobs such that they're not serving just a single, highly-specific, narrow role?--Mooffins 05:55, September 2, 2010 (UTC) *Enlight should be Enhancing magic, because Reprisal for PLD (also Light-based) is based on Enhancing Magic. Dread Spikes should be, but seeing as DRK have no skill in that, it's based on Dark Magic. I'm not saying I know, I'm taking an educated guess based on previous spells available to these two jobs. I'm not arguing about the rest because it's frankly pointless. I have my opinions, you have yours and you're entitled to them as I am to mine. I just believe that there should be less of this spreading around of what other jobs have to "even the playing field". -- Orubicon 10:40, September 2, 2010 (UTC) Addle - I cannot help but wonder what this is.. however, according to most dictionaries, this word is best described as 'Confuse'. So it's possible we may be gaining access to a spell that will act like the old Final Fantasy spell that causes enemies to attack themselves, teammates, and enemies alike equally. * Addle won't be Confuse because it doesn't exist in FFXI due to game mechanics. And Addle was never Confuse; it was Magick Down in FFXII and Amnesia in FFT. -- Orubicon 09:55, September 1, 2010 (UTC) Animus Augeo & Minuo - Curiosities abound with these two. However, further research similarly done with Addle shows initial potential that these are the Enmity augmenting spells they mentioned. Of course, Augeo means to enhance and Minuo means to suppress. Break - BLMs rejoice, as players finally have access to the potent status effect: Petrification. I'm sure it'll cost more than Sleep, but unlike Sleep, this wouldn't be broken by damage of any kind. Stoneja & Waterja - Ultimate forms of the elemental spells, aside from the super spells (i.e. Flare, Break, Tornado, etc). In older Final Fantasies, these were the best spells available to the mage jobs. I'm interested to see how these will go! Sentinel's Scherzo - A scherzo is a movement. This would seem to be the damage mitigation song they spoke of. ^^ Myoshu & Yurin - Myo means 'command (n), dark (n), decree, destiny, life, strange (uk) (adj-na,n), unusual' while Shu means 'actor'. Yu means 'at last, beyond doubt, hot water (n), increasingly, more and more' while Rin means 'cold, companion (n), counter for wheels and flowers (n)'. Any thoughts on these? --Eli 17:37, August 28, 2010 (UTC) * The Ninja abilities could very well be hate management too. Too bad they're probably high level, because I'd like to see something that makes it so tanks doesn't need to sub something for its level 5 job ability. WHM isn't really getting anywhere either though; just most useless job abilities that should be spells (i.e. why don't the bar-ailment spells work like the bar-elemental spells?; even with a bar spell, the ailments last hours), useless spells (Cura II better be freaking potent), and spells that will probably have short as hell durations at the first level you get them. BLM is in good shape, Endark makes DRK the best light elemental hunter in the land, I wouldn't mind seeing BRD get hate control, and it looks as if SMN is getting Phalanxga. - Yertthedestroyer 00:26, August 30, 2010 (UTC) *SMN already has Phalanxga on Diabolos. This sounds more like a Critical Hit blocking/mitigating ability. Just have to see though. Guessing what SE means when they say things is a very inexact science anyway. ShadowKatze 16:26, August 30, 2010 (UTC) Addle in other Final Fantasy games is an enfeebling spell which inflicts a negative magic effect, Magic Attack Down/Magic Accuracy Down (or possibly both). It would also make sense that RDM is getting it (assuming the spell will do the same thing as previous games). Finally we may have something useful for those Soulflayers and Flans. * My first thought was this spell would be the player version of amnesia, but if MACC/MATT down was the effect in previous games that makes sense. Just have to see though. ShadowKatze 16:26, August 30, 2010 (UTC) * In tactics it disabled the use of mastered abilities, AKA: Amnesia. --Daniel Hatcher 17:32, August 31, 2010 (UTC) Stoneja & Waterja in other Final Fantasy games I believe were cast by mobs and were similar to a respective stonega/waterga, but in addition there was a chance they would inflict an enfeeble. Stoneja may petrify, Waterja may silence, Aeroja may confuse. It would be great to see a combined extra strong AoE nuke with enfeebles attached! *Thanks for the history note. I was wondering why they simply didn't have ga4 spells, but made a new name. If they have an added (or potentially added) effect, that would make sense to me.ShadowKatze 16:27, August 30, 2010 (UTC) *Note on elements and enfeebles... Waterja would Poison, not silence, unless they really want to screw with what they've got set up for FFXI. Also, we have no idea yet if Addle will be a confuse effect or what, so for now Aeroja would most likely give Weight or Silence. —Feauce 16:53, August 31, 2010 (UTC) *Yes, I wasn't saying what I thought they would be reincarnated as in FFXI, I was stating what they had been in a previous game. I absolutely agree that if they did have additional effects, I would think waterja would be poison and aeroja would be silence or weight. As a previous poster mentioned, confuse doesn't really work well with our battle system, not that it couldn't be done, I just don't think they would. -Calypso 17:19, September 3, 2010 (UTC) Break All I have to say is I would imagine this will still be an Enfeebling based spell even though it is BLM only at the moment. Hope everyone has their Enfeeb sets ready. --Calypso 14:17, August 30, 2010 (UTC) Job Traits Fencer Can someone please explain to me why RDMs don't get this yet? Seeing as how most (if not all) Fencer/Fencer's gear is RDM-only or requires /RDM? Especially since our AF weapon (FENCING Degen) is a sword, our Relic gear is all called "Duelist's", we get the Shield skill, and have no 2-handed melee skills to speak of (most notably lacking Staff skill)? —Feauce 17:30, August 31, 2010 (UTC) *The same reason Paladin's don't I suspect. Warrior's gain the move, while also gaining access to 2-handed weapons. So it can't be assumed to be just for those that can not wield 2-handed weapons. --Daniel Hatcher 17:34, August 31, 2010 (UTC) Screwing White Mage, yet again Cura II As if the first spell didn't suck enough already, now they are adding in Cura II. Wouldn't have been too bad of a spell if you could target people outside of your party, then it would ALMOST make sense to have it. All Cura is is an under powered Curaga. And no, it does not matter if Afflatus Misery is up or not, the spell still sucks. Being able to cure 100+ HP ONLY if you have sustained sufficient damage and ONLY to yourself makes it stupid. Curaga may take up a little bit more MP, but the amount of HP recovered is more stable and reliable than Cura AND you can cast it on other people instead of having to run down to the DD's and put yourself in harms way. Which ALSO makes Cura useless becase in a pinch, I am going to throw out a Curaga spell first, that way I do not have to worry about accidentally moving and interrupting my spell casting. Way to go Square Enix, you suck again! Refresh II Because Red Mages everywhere were pissed about Battery Charge being too powerful, now they get Refresh II and guess what? They are boosting the effect of Battery Charge to make it more powerful still. While White Mages STILL have no natural ("Natural" means the job by itself with no subjob or other item) refresh capability. Every single mage job in the game (any job that uses MP naturally) has some form of natural refresh. Let me count the ways: *White Mage: Nothing *White Mage: Devotion (Oh wait, that gives MP to OTHER people, yeah no MP for WHM) *Black Mage: Aspir (May not be much, but its something) *Black mage: Manafont (2HR, unlimited MP) *Black Mage: Clear Mind V (May not be refresh, but sure helps a lot when healing) *Red Mage: Convert *Red Mage: Refresh *Red Mage: Refresh II *Paladin: Auto-Refresh (May not be much, but PLD do not have much MP to begin with) *Paladin: Chivalry (Converts TP to MP) *Dark Knight: Aspir *Dark Knight: Aspir II *Bard: Mages Ballad (Does not even use MP naturally and they have a form of Refresh) *Bard: Mages Ballad II (I understand, support job, fine. But they still have Refresh) *Summoner: Auto-Refresh (May not be much, but helps when no Avatar is out) *Summoner: Elemental Siphon (Which is also going to receive a boost) *Summoner: Clear Mind V (Same as stated for BLM) *Summoner: Diabolos + Avatar's Favor (May not recover much for the SMN, but helps everyone else and is being made stronger in next update) *Summoner: Perpetuation Cost going down in the next update, that will make the above combination much more useful. *Blue Mage: Battery Charge *Blue Mage: Diffusion + Battery Charge = Refreshga *Blue Mage: Auto-Refresh (Numerous ways to obtain this: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Blue_Mage/Job_Traits#Auto_Refresh ) *Corsair: Evoker's Roll (Again, another support job, but they at least still have it as an option) *Dancer: Aspir Samba (Not a support job, but still has some form of refresh) *Dancer: Aspir Samba II *Scholar: Sublimation (Up to 25% of Max HP restored to MP, without merits) *Scholar: Light/Dark Arts (Helps save 10% of MP, not a refresh) *Scholar: Clear Mind V (Third job to have this) *Scholar: Strategems (More ways to save MP, although no refresh) So, please explain to me how this is fair to White mages? And do not say that Cure VI means anything because after using it in battle, Cure V is FAR more effective. Cure VI should be a FULL heal for the amount of MP consumed. Almost double the MP consumed, but the amount of HP healed more than a Cure V is about... 50-75 HP, total. Thanks, but I'll toss out two Cure V, suck up the extra 47 MP, heal twice the amount of HP and save on enmity since Cure V builds as much hate as a Cure III and Cure VI build slightly more than a Cure IV. When you balance everything out, White Mage got screwed. *--WolfeMasters 06:47, September 7th, 2010 (EST)